Prescott eNews

Yavapai County Sheriff Office Detectives provide accounts of their interviews with participants in the Sweat Lodge events on October 8. 

It was October 8, 2009 when the first 911 call came in alerting emergency personnel that a tragedy was unfolding at the Angel Lodge Retreat Center only a few miles from Sedona. During a Sweat Lodge ceremony, facilitated by self-help guru James Arthur Ray as part of the Spiritual Warrior program, something went horribly wrong. Two people, Kirby Brown and James Shore died at the scene. Nineteen others were transported to various hospitals, including Liz Neuman, who would die nine days later from injuries sustained during the Sweat Lodge ceremony.

What went wrong? Is anyone culpable? Were appropriate safety measures and precautions taken? Was the structure legal? All those questions and more are being asked as part of a homicide investigation by the Yavpai County Sheriff's Office (YCSO). This week, many of the photos, search warrants and affidavits have been released to the public. Prescott eNews has obtained the DVD and 3 CD's associated with the documents, and is providing an indepth look at what they contain.

Today, we take a look at what some of the 2009 Sweat Lodge participants said during the interviews YCSO detectives.

There was general agreement on many points, according to Detective Ross Diskin's affidavit:

• There was no indications to explain why some people died and others became deathly ill other than the extreme heat inside the Sweat Lodge
• Ray continued to urge people to stay inside the lodge
• Ray sat next to the door, which meant that people would have to crawl past him in order to get outside
• Many participants were concerned that if they left, they would be letting Ray down
• The amount of time an individual spent in the Sweat Lodge was to be based on the individual's preference
• No instructions were given prior to the sweat lodge event regarding potential medical problems
• Many in the group had been fasting for as long as 36 hours, and had only one meal before the Sweat Lodge event
• The participants were told to hydrate

Detective Steve Surak Interviews Lou Caci

(October 8, 2009) Lou Caci was one of the victims transported to the Verde Valley Medical Center (VVMC) and was placed in the Intensive Care Unit (ICU) due to his injuries. Caci advised Surak that this was not the first event he had attended which was sponsored by Ray, and in fact, it wasn't even the first Sweat Lodge event of Ray's he had participated in.

According to Caci, he participated in a Sweat Lodge event with Ray in 2003, but this one held in 2009 seemed a lot hotter. Caci stated that he was injured when he had come out of the Sweat Lodge during round 4 or 5, and had put his hands in the hot rocks in the middle of the makeshift tent. He returned for the last round.

Caci said that he observed a woman that appeared to be unconscious and told Ray about it, but nothing was done for her at that time. He said that he and another woman pulled the unconsicious woman from the Lodge when the event was over. It was Caci's opinion that Ray could have conducted the Sweat Lodge better, including hiring medical personnel to be available in the event of an emergency.

Surak reports, "Lou Caci also attended James Ray's "Modern Magick" program in March of 2008. Caci was instructed to break a brick with his hand. Caci broke the brick but also broke his hand. Caci described breaking the brick and his hand as an "amazing experience"."

Sgt. Tom Boelts Interviews Dawn Gordon

Dawn Gordon was interviewed on 10/12/09 by Sgt. Tom Boelts. In that report, Gordon was sitting in the back of the Sweat Lodge next to James Shore and Kirby Brown. According to Gordon, earlier during the event, Shore had helped drag a female in medical distress out of the tent, but he didn't leave at that time. Later on, Gordon could hear Brown gurgling, and she heard Shore say he needed help getting Kirby out, but no one responded. Apparently, Shore was too weak to get Kirby out, and Gordon was also too weak to assist.

Detective Shonna Willingham Interviews Beverley Bunn

Beverley Bunn is a dentist by trade and was a participant at the 2009 Spiritual Warrior Sweat Lodge event. It was Bunn's opinion that Ray pushed people too hard during the Sweat Lodge. Bunn also related how participants fasted prior to the Sweat Lodge, and additionally took part in other physically and mentally streunous events. Willingham reports that Bunn stated, "In one of the events James Ray played the role of "God" and when anyone did anything he didn't like James would point to them and say "You're dead." The participant would then have to play dead until James Ray decided they could live again."

Bunn recalls hearing someone say, "I can't get her to move, I can't get her to wake up," during the Sweat Lodge event. Willingham reports that Bunn said Ray replied, "

"Leave her alone, she'll be dealt with in the next round," which confirmed the Mercer's statements. Bunn also noted that Ray made statements such as, "You may think that you're going to die but you're not going to die."

Detective Shonna Willingham Interviews Melissa Phillips

Melissa Phillips, a 2009 participant, was also interviewed by Willingham. Phillips is reported to have quoted Ray as saying participants, "Had to surrender to death to survive it." According to Phillips, participants wer not allowed to talk during the Sweat Lodge activity, only Ray (referred to as the "Master") was allowed to speak. Willingham said, "Melissa observed participants dragging other participants, who were in medical distress, out of the sweat lodge. Melissa was transported to the hospital after the sweat lodge. At a follow-up visit with her doctor in Canada she learned she had burns allover her body from the heat of the sweat lodge."

Detective Wendy Parkison Interviews Dr. Armstrong The Night of the Sweat Lodge Deaths

Dr. Armstrong was interviewed on the night of October 8, 2009 by Detective Wendy Parkison. Armstrong was a participant in the 2009 Sweat Lodge event, and provided a perspective that was slightly different than the other accounts.

Parkison's summary of Dr. Armstrong's immediate account reads as follows (it's long - the complete excerpt follows):

"Jeanne has done some James Ray events in the past however this is the first time for a Vision Quest and sweat lodge. Jeanne states she is a doctor and works for an immediate care clinic in Avon, Indiana. She had dinner Tuesday night and didn't eat food or drink water until Thursday morn ing. James Ray told them to drink a lot of water".

"I asked how many people she thought were in the lodge, she guessed about 50. I drew a diagram of the lodge and she drew an xto the West of the flap. She said she was close enough to the flap she could feel air when it was open. She said she was to the left of Christine Ma ttern. Iaskedifsheexperiencedany problemsbreathingoranyother difficulties. She said it was hot, like a sauna. She did not consider it a major discomfort. Jeanne stayed in the lodge the whole time."

"I asked her if prior to going in to the lodge if any one discussed what to do if anyone panicked or got sick. She said she doesn't recall. She said people in there spoke out. I asked her about that. She said when the door was open they left. I asked if anyone instructed them to stay. She said before the lodge they were told to let someone know (if assistance was needed) but you don't usually remove people before the flap opens because of hot rocks (when the flap was closed it was too dark to see)."

"I asked if she heard anyone get denied a request to leave. She said no. I asked if when the flap was closed if anyone got denied. She said she was "in my own world". She said she heard people say they wanted to leave and she heard people encouraging them to stay strong. She said the whole group did that and that was what this was about. She said no one got yelled at or humiliated for leaving. She said it was group encouragement. Jeanne said she felt she could leave if she wanted to".

She said it was really hot and she was sweating. But the ground was cooler. She said the flap was open each time for a long time and towards the last round she believes it was open at least 7 minutes. She said people would be leaving and people would be coming back in."

"I asked when she first recognized a problem. She said it wasn't until they were out of the lodge. She said she was laying there getting wet and she heard someone say they needed medical attention and someone was getting CPR. She said she worked on (CPR) both James Shore and Kirby Brown. She said they were behind the sweat lodge and she doesn't know how they got there."

"I asked if anyone knew she was a medical doctor prior going into the sweat lodge. She said some people did because at some point you share what you do. I asked if anyone asked her to be available if there were problems. She said no, she is attending (participant)."

"I asked how she was directed to where Kirby and James were. She said she thinks someone said they needed help and asked where the nurse was. She told them she was a doctor and asked what they needed. I asked what the condition of James and Kirby were when she saw them. She said they appeared to be in full cardiac arrest with no pulse and CPR was being performed already. She said she took over for one person as they were getting tired. She said at some point she switched with the person who was doing CPR on Kirby. She said neitherJames nor Kirby ever responded. J asked if she could tell what their issues were. She said she doesn't know when she saw them they were fuJI arrest. She said both were a little cyanotic, there faces were a little dusky and she attributed that to having no pulse, not breathing and having CPR being performed. She said when she took over for the person doing CPR on Kirby she heard someone say they could feel a pulse (on Kirby) and that her color was better. Jeanne said she stopped to check and realized the only reason there was color was because she (Jeanne) was doing effective CPR."

"She could not say how long Kirby and James had been in that condition. I asked if she saw dilated pupils and she said she did not check that. She said at that point the job is to do CPR until the paramedics arrived. She said those two were the only ones in that condition. I asked if she rendered aid to anyone else and she said yes. She said she assisted with Sidney (Spencer). They asked her to come look at Sidney beca use she had some frothy sputum. Jeanne said she did a sternal rub to see if she would respond to pain. She said she was doing that when she heard the call for help over by Kirby and James. She said she triaged and because Sidney had a pulse and was breathing on her own she went over to where Kirby and James were. She said there were still people assisting Sidney. She said Sidney was incoherent. I asked what the frothy sputum was indicative of and she said it could be pulmonary edema. She said initially it looked more like spit."

"Jeanne said after they took the full arrest victims she checked on the people that were still sitting on the ground making sure they had blankets and stayed warm in case they had heat exhaustion. Once the paramedics got there she stayed out of their way other than holding up l.v bags."

"I asked if there was anything she thought could help with this investigation. She said she doesn't know but obviously something out of the ordinary. Jeanne said she really didn't look forward to doing the sweat lodge and that getting hot is not something she likes to do however it was her choice to do it. She said it wasjust the luck of the draw in her position in the sweat lodge and that she controlled her breathing and laid on the ground. She said this sweat lodge for her was more comfortable than some of the sauna's she has been in."

Detective John Johnson Interviews Participant Dr. Jeanne Armstrong Two Weeks Later

On October 22, 2009, Detective John Johnson interviewed Dr. Jeanne Armstrong again by telephone.

According to Armstrong, Ray did tell the participants that the Sweat Lodge would be the most intense thing they would do during the Spiritual Warrior program. The only health warnings Ray mentioned was that they might feel nauseous and want to throw up. Armstrong said that Ray emphasized it was important not to try to leave until between rounds in order to avoid falling into the pit of hot rocks. She said he also told them to stay hydrated. Armstrong said that one female participant asked, "

"I have high blood pressure, will it raise my blood pressure, should I go in?" She said James Ray told the woman "that's up to you I think it's like exercise and might raise your blood pressure."

Armstrong happened to be sitting about 4 or 5 people away from the flap. She described it to be like intense exercise to her, and she stayed through all the rounds. She said that during one of the rounds, a man tried to get up and leave, but tripped and burned his hand on the rocks, and screamed from the pain. Johnson reports, "She said James Ray asked "what was that" and then 'let's get him out" after being told what happened. She said people tried to help him out and he didn't want help leaving. She said James Ray told him "it will be faster if they help you out." She said she thought that subject returned for the last round."

Johnson continues in his report that Dr. Armstrong, "...said she heard someone yell "Ami is passed out" and "I need help." Jeanne said people were yelling things including a male voice say "let's get some guys over there." She said the voice came from the area James Ray was in and she thought it might have been him. Jeanne said it was very loud in the sweat lodge with people yelling things and James Ray talking at the beginning of each event. She said people were encouraging each other to stay and make itthrough it."

Dr. Armstrong was one of the last people out. When she heard someone yell, "I need help over here," she went and identified herself as a doctor, and proceeded to help a female victim named Sidney. Someone told her they were doing CPR on another victim, so she left Sidney to assist with the CPR. Johnson writes, "She said she stood up and James Ray came over to her. She said James Ray asked her what else they could do at that point. She said she told James she needed an AED (Automatic External Defibrillator) if one was available. She said James Ray left looking for an AED."

All photos courtesy of the Yavapai County Sheriff's Office.

To be continued: Tomorrow Prescott eNews will look at accounts of past events sponsored by James Arthur Ray.